Is Full Day Kindergarten Best for our Kids?
Many parents received a letter on Saturday announcing Superintendent Antonucci's recommendation to move Westwood to a program whereby kindergartners would follow the normal elementary schedule on all days except Wednesday. Wednesday would always be a half-day.
This topic has been discussed here on WestwoodBlog before but now that a formal proposal has been announced, I'd like to share some thoughts and see what others think.
First of all, the program is optional--but I believe everyone in Westwood takes the option. The morning program is free of charge, but the extended program costs $1200/child. This proposal further extends the existing program to a full day and does not add any cost to parents. Also, it is worth noting that kindergarten itself is optional in Massachusetts--if you don't want to send your kids to any program, you can start them off in first grade.
Secondly, and news to me until my wife told me about what a huge topic this is among moms of 4-year olds, parents can elect to "hold out" their kids if they feel the child is not ready for kindergarten. This explains why there can be 6-year olds in class with 5-year olds. I believe there is some concern that extending the program might increase the number of kids who are held out, resulting in more of an age mix, but mostly, this concerns kids who were born in the summer and are close to the cut off age.
The letter we received detailed a series of activities over the past year to develop this proposal. It appears that most of the communication was through the school system...since we are not in the system yet, none of this communication reached us. It would have been helpful to send out letters to parents of future kindergartners in addition to parents of school age children. But the process now provides for feedback and it is more likely everyone will be focused on the issue now that a decision is imminent: Superintendent Antonucci presents his formal recommendation to the School Committee on Thursday, February 26, at 7:30pm in the High School Little Theater.
I like the idea of a full-day program in general and am optimistic that it could provide a comfortable pace for kids with more time and less pressure to get through required material. I read the Full Day Kindergarten: School Committee Presentation posted on the town website, but the presentation is mostly bullet points without the context of an in-person meeting.
One thing I believe would be helpful in this discussion is a "before and after" document that outlines a typical day for the kids. I am hoping more time means more play. But I don't really know what the kids do right now and what is necessary to get them ready for first grade. When our daughter Sharon was at St. Johns Nursery last year, I remember going to a Parent's Night where director Mal Tennihan gave a presentation that both reassured me that the kids were not in some kind of learning boot camp for overachieving parents, but that there was a solid plan behind the activities the kids were doing designed to help them develop social and attention skills to be ready for a more formal environment. I think more time has the potential to allow a more natural pace and less pressure and I'd like to see what that means for the kids so I have something to compare against.
Comments
I am not sure of the logic
I am not sure of the logic behind full day Kindergarten. Since the option to send your child to full day currently exists this seems more of a money grab then anything else. The move towards full day changes the $1200 that is charged per child to a required amount for all the children. We can brace for the predictable over ride the following year.
In regards to comments such as it helps working parents. I know very few working parents that are done with work in time for school to be out. The child care needs don't change and in fact finding child care help for the new school hours may be harder as child care providers may not want to work on a reduced schedule.
Finally our child is beat when she gets home from school on full day Wednesdays as it is. Increasing the time will make that matter worse.
With issues such as school funding, class sizes beyond the district guidelines, the overcrowding at the middle school and the potential school impact by Westwood Station one would hope those issues get address prior to taking on a well intentioned but not well thought out idea such as full day Kindergarten. The families I have spoken with are not in support of this at all.
clarification on $1200 option
I think, even under the new program, there will be an option, as there is now, to do the morning-only kindergarten for free. So it would be either morning only free or full day for $1200. Right now it is morning-only for free or extended day for $1200.
Full Day Kindergarten vs. Overcrowding
I agree with "B" in regards to the overcrowding issue. The Sheehan Kindergarten this year was large and many parents were concerned. At the Sheehan, it is not just a funding issue, there is no room for additional classes.
It does not make sense, that you would go to a longer Kindergarten day, without addressing the oversized class issue first, especially in Kindergarten. In all the outside research that was mentioned, I could not find a "suggested" class size, when considering full day Kindergarten program.
I actually support a full day Kindergarten program, if done properly with the correct class size, space and teacher/student ratio. However, agreeing with "B" again, overcrowding classes accross the board should be the priority before changing a Kindergarten program, that already is a good one.
Full Day Kindergarten vs. Overcrowding
There is now a faq posted on the District Web Site. Dave is correct that the full day is optional. When you pull back all the layers it seems that the genesis of this is how to get more money for the school. Getting more money for the school is not a bad thing but there also seems to be little conversation about what the associated costs with it as well.
Currently the 'full day' program consists of sending all the kids to one school for what can be lightly called activity time. That is different then having all 5 elementary schools maintain Kindergarten full day classes. While the budget process seems to be secret until the last possible moment, I find it hard to believe that the teachers union would work full days at no cost to the tax payer. This has both short terms costs as well as long terms costs associated with pension programs.
So we get a grant but then the whole cost structure goes out of whack.
Again, with all the other issues facing Westwood creating a whole new infrastructure and program to get grant money seems a backwards way of doing things.
One can only go back to the town to ask for more money so often. Wrapping the full day program into something that is good for the kids is disingenuous at best.
From the faq - "We pursued, and eventually received, Kindergarten Grant funding from the Massachusetts Department of Education in February 2007. The grant funding was available only to communities that committed to implement a full day Kindergarten model (note: our current model by definition is not full day). The grant was discussed and accepted by the School Committee at a public meeting."
http://www.westwood.k12.ma.us/index.cfm?cdid=20397&pid=10263
full day k
B- I can not locate the detail of "sending all the kids to one school". Where did you locate that? So Kindergarteners would all be at one school and potentially not the school they will attend for grades 1-5? Would all Kindergarteners be at the same school or just full day?
thanks.
Sending all the kids to one school
Hi B,
Could you explain how you came to these conclusions:
"Currently the 'full day' program consists of sending all the kids to one school for what can be lightly called activity time."
As a parent of a current kindergartner, that would make no sense in many ways. Each school has one or more Kindergarten classrooms. Also, I am not sure what you mean by "activity time."
To understand the full picture and how the kindergarten program will work, I would recommend people contact their neighborhood school's principal to learn the specifics.
For Tbrk and AlShap , you
For Tbrk and AlShap , you can read on the extended day web site that the program is located at 790 Gay Street. The kids are picked up at their Kindergarten and bused over to extended day. That is not my or conclusion it is the way it is. My point was to clarify that the current extended day program, is not full day kindergarten and people confuse the two.
Again what I mean by activity time is that it is not school, it is extended day. From their website-
"The Westwood Extended Day Program provides a daily opportunity for children to be creative, to stretch their muscles, and to explore and experience the world around them. Children participate in a variety of activities, including arts and crafts, dramatic play, group games and sports, cooking and science. Physical recreation is offered daily indoors and/or outdoors. Quiet space for reading and homework is provided daily.
Program enrichment derives from a number of local resources. The Westwood Public Library, Police, Fire, and School Departments, Youth Commission, and Extended Day parents offer a vast array of information and resources.
The Extended Day staff strives to meet the individual needs, abilities and interests of each child. It is our goal to contribute to the social growth of the children by fostering cooperative and responsible attitudes in a multi-ethnic setting. The staff works to create a supportive environment in which children can learn to make good choices, and to become considerate and contributing citizens. All Extended Day activities are supervised to ensure the health and safety of the children."
I happen to think that Extended Day is of great value to Westwood and am a huge fan of the program. Many of our friends take advantage of the program. Furthermore, I am active with our school as well as the PTA and do attend the principal coffee talks so I would consider myself and our family well informed.
http://www.westwood.k12.ma.us/index.cfm?pid=10382
All kids go to Hanlon?
Is this correct? Do all kindergartners get bussed from the 4 other schools in the pm for this program?
No, no, no. Extended day is unrelated to K
Kindergartners do not get bussed to the Extended Day program. That program is for regular school students--it has nothing to do with kindergarten. The FAQ on Full Day Kindergarten is here.
Sorry for the confusion. I thought it sounded bizarre that every kindergartener in town would be going to Hanlon in the afternoon.
There are two different
There are two different topics. Extended Day and then a thread on full day kindergarten. That seems to be the confusion.
Full Day Kindergarten - Bus Savings
I think the town will be saving money on bus costs with the new program. Last year, the Kindergarten students were sent home on their own bus except on Wednesdays (they were in school the whole day on long Wednesdays and released with the school on short Wednesdays). Does this new program mean the kindergarten buses will not be needed except every other Wednesday? This would be a savings to the town. Would they be using this money to cover some costs instead of going back to the tax payers? I am not sure.
As for the longer day being optional -- last year in my children's classroom, every child was in for the complete program. For parents who choose the shorter day, would their children be missing out? Something else to consider.
B, I don't think the current
B, I don't think the current kindergarten teachers are working less than full time now. I seem to recall reading something on the website that said they helped in the first grade classrooms after their own students had left.
My child is not in the school system yet (will be in K next year). For those concerned about overcrowding, what is the current kindergarten class size?
The class size does vary
The class size does vary depending upon which elementary school. I do know that in the Sheehan the Kindergarten class sizes are above the guidelines at ~24 kids a class. Keep in mind that this will carry forth through each grade.
One of the ideas is to get rid of the art room and make it another class room.
Enrollment projections 2009-2010
Hello,
I also have a k student starting next year. The following are the k Enrollment Projections for 2009-2010
Each # is a k class and the # projected to be in it next year. Martha Jones will have three k classes along with Sheehan. The other three schools are projected to have two k classes
Martha Jones 17 , 17, 17
Deerfield 22, 23
Hanlon 16, 16
Sheehan 22, 22, 22
Downey 17,17
I got the #s from the Superintendents FY10 budget presentation on the Westwood Public School Website. Good presentation to read if you are looking for info for next year.
kindergraten
there are 25 students in three kindergarten classes at one school. my first grader doesnot have kindergarten teachers helping out their class in the afternoons.
i think more information should be available for incoming kindergarteners and others for 09 and so on.
should pre-school have longer days, etc. to be prepared for kindergarten?
Kindergarten - please read the FAQ
I would like to urge people to make sure they have the facts. Please read the FAQ document referenced above, and please call one of the principals or others listed in the document if you have questions or concerns. This is an effort that has been ongoing for several years and the school personnel and parent volunteers I have spoken with truly believe that it is best for students.
Kindergarten teachers are paid for a full day but currently have unassigned time after their students leave; the full day program would simply have them working the same schedule (virtually) as the grade 1-5 teachers. There would likely be some savings in bus costs which could potentially be tapped for any other expenses associated with a full day program, in order for it to be budget neutral.
One reason there is reluctance to turn the Sheehan art room into a classroom is that the school has 3 floors which makes "art on a cart" very difficult. Also given the state of the economy and resulting budget challenges here in Westwood, adding any teaching positions is extremely difficult at this time. Full day Kindergarten does not affect the number of teaching positions.
I would hope the reluctance
I would hope the reluctance to turn the art room into a class room would have more to do with the quality of the school experience rather then the fact that the cart does not go up and down stairs.
If we step back from all the talk about unfunded mandates, class sizes, what this person says and that person feels. What ever happened to the issue of kids enjoying school?
Removing art class rooms, reducing recess, getting rid of unstructured play time all negatively impact our children as well as the class room experience.
As recently as yesterday a study was released saying that "Daily School Recess Improves Classroom Behavior". What I find so scary is that the baseline is 15 minutes a day! Seriously, could any of us sit at our desks at work and only have 15 minute break. If school was a job, that would be illegal.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/01/090126173835.htm
When you compare private and parochial school days to the traditional public school day there is time for both the learning as well as the play. At some point the pendulum needs to swing back to a healthy balance.
5 separately districted schools
The former superintendent and school committee knew when we went from K-2, 3-5 schools to all K-5 schools that there would be dramatic differences in class size and school capacity that could not be dealt with in 5 districts in a small town. The old system was much more efficient and cost effective (they only cut one bus route in the change). No other town of our size in MA has 5 separate districts because you can't get the class sizes to come out comparably and that creates equity issues, testing performance issues (I want more tutors because my district didn't do as well), real estate issues (this house is in the exclusive Deerfield district)etc etc. The town knew all this and still made the change. This should not be a surprise, we've had dramatic differences in class size for several years.
5 separate K-5 schools
Having 5 separate K-5 schools puts a lot of kids within walking distance to school. A great way for "walkers'" parents to meet other parents in their neighborhood too. I'm so pleased that my children will be able to walk to Hanlon. Now if only they didn't have to cross a busy street without a crosswalk to get to the sidewalk - a whole separate issue I know!
Class size / art rooms
Guest1 makes an important point for people to understand - having 5 neighborhood K-5 schools in a district our size makes it challenging to balance class size. That needs to be weighed against the benefits of a K-5 school setup, and that decision was made (presumably with this knowledge) a number of years ago. Also, simply having 5 schools makes it harder to balance class size and is a lot for a town our size - Medfield and other comparable towns have 3 - but that isn't something that can be changed without major construction projects.
And I realize I didn't express the art room situation as completely as I should have - the schools are reluctant to give up ANY art/music space because the experience is better for the kids if they can have dedicated space. However, due to enrollment issues, various art/music rooms have been turned into regular classrooms over the past several years. The 3-floor situation at the Sheehan complicates art on a cart as a solution more than at the other schools. So I guess I should have said the schools are more reluctant ...
Mary Masi-Phelps
full day K
I have a child entering Kindergarten next year and am excited about the full-day option. I have some questions about the format of the day and plan to submit those to the administration and school committee as suggested in the kindergarten FAQ. My primary concern is adequate free play and recess/outdoor time. I think 5 year olds need to get out and play - so as long as enough of that is built into the extended full-day, I'm all for it!
full day K
Has anyone talked to the teachers? Do they believe the program change is beneficial or not? The current program is only 15 minutes short of a Massachusetts full-day program (5 hours is considered full-day; I know this because my older children went through the program). If kids are wiped out on Wednesdays, as one blogger wrote, what will they look like after a week? How will the extended time be used when our winters prevent outdoor play?
There was study done only 2 years ago that clearly showed our program is best; what changed? Is it wise to make decisions about education based on buses and money?
As Masi-Phelps stated K teachers do have unassigned prep time after the Kindergarten students leave. This is valuable prep time for their classes as this grade level has no workbooks or text books; it takes alot of time and effort to prepare the right materials for the class. As a parent volunteer I have seen what goes into the teaching of our little ones. As a tax payer who is experiencing the overcrowding at Thurston I would prefer money spent to equalize class size, not to institute new programs that could lose grant funding in this crazy economy.
Full Day K: Ask the Teachers!
I think all the incoming parents should talk to the kindergarten teachers at your local schools. Your building principals are going to tell you the full day is a wonderful thing because they are afraid of repercussions from Superintendent Antonucci. Most kindergarten teachers are against the idea. They feel the kids aren't ready for an almost 7 hour day, they're going to be forced to stretch the curriculum and push academic readiness, not allow for extra recess, and they know your children are already wiped out just from the long Wednesday. The K teachers are being paid for a full day and the administration is just planning on squeezing all they can from these already overworked kids and teachers.
No one working in WPS wants to make waves in fear of repercussions (just add up how many principals, special education administrators, psychologists and teachers have left--or been pushed into retirement or out of the district. So ask your future K teacher in confidence and see what they REALLY think!
Full Day Kg
As an educator and clinician who has worked in school systems with full day programs, I can assure you that a well designed and executed program is more than a wonderful thing. Kindergarten is not just about readiness skills. It's about socialization--being a part of a larger group. cooperating, adapting to external demands and prosocial behavior. There is a lot of play built into the day. One of the best predictors of success in the primary grades is being able to socialize with ones peers. The half day program just can't give the kids the necessary time for development of that skill set.